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Unread 06-07-2007, 06:50 AM   #11
ynkedad
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Default WOW...

If a neighbor (drunk or not) came onto my property and pulled out a weapon, I'd be in fear for my life ! How the F (in this day in age)am I supposed to know if he's going to use it or not. Obviously, the end result was he just walked away, but the threat of immanent fear is/was there. I'd think Tresspassing would at least be in order!?

Same situation...but what if exile had a gun of his own (on his person), seen this fella Pull His Out, then shot him because he was in immanent fear of his life, how would that play out?
IMO...I'd rather be tried by 12 than burried by 6 .
Seems to me, a jury would see self defense as the guy had NO business being on exile's property with a firearm to begin with. Let alone pulling it out during an obviously heated situation.
JMHO,

~Ray
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Unread 06-07-2007, 07:11 AM   #12
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Default Where's the Justice!

I have a friend who got a call from his (at the time) 15 year old daughter, to come and get her because she was scared. She was out with some friends at a local hangout in Wildwood, when a large # of older teen guys showed up causing lots of problems.
Dad gets there, parks far enough away and beckons his daughter to come with him. hey wouldn't allow her to.
Instead the group of guys turn on him, coming at him saying they're going to beat him, F... him up kill him. Dad reaches back into his truck, opens the glove box pulling out his holstered pistol and places it on the hood of the truck to be seen stating..."no one's killing me tonight" .
By now the cops have been called and are arriving.
Result...Dad goes to jail for "Brandishing" his weapon and most of the teens all hauled A$$.
FYI...the teens that were caught were drunk and on various drugs, but released to their parents.
After a night in jail, and the threat of losing his business over the drawn out ordeal, the charges were eventually dropped.
Where's the Justice?

~Ray
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Unread 06-07-2007, 07:57 AM   #13
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Ray,

To attempt to answer your questions, 1st there is no justice...Just -Us!

FWIW, obviously dropping the charges at least implies that the charging officers lacked probable cause (at the very least) and probably outright made a false arrest.

Personally, I'm not much for apologies when sstupidity is involved.

Under the circumstances you mentioned, I'd have my attroney filing criminal and civil charges against those involved and thier agency before the ink was dry on the release form But thats me. The older I get, the less bull**** I'm inclined to take. If you're going to do this job, do it right, do it professionally or don't do it at all!!!

Depending on when this occurred, he was fully justified (IMO) in his actions.

A few short years ago (1-2 I believe) you still had to attempt to flea from an attack(ers). You couldn't stand your ground

Thats been changed in Florida (which I think somewhat answers your question Sandman). You can "brandish" (not recklessly) your weapon lawfully in defense of your life or anothers.

Again, I don't knwo when this event took place and things have changed. Either way, it sounds like the charging agents failed to do thier homework and did what a lot of officers do. They rush into a charge for expediencies sake and botch up the case down the road. The Aisenburg case is a prime example. They are the couple in Brandon with the missing infant. Piss poor police/detective work at it's finest.

Before it's over, the department and possibly the individual officers will pay dearly for thier errors. Unfortunately, they were likely right on track but you have to take your time!!!!

Again, as far as the neighbor (or anyone else for that matter) coming onto your property and waiving a firearm about, it's simply a matter of being able to articulate that you were in a justifiable fear for your safety or someone elses. In the case above, his daughter was being held against her will (false imprisonment-Felony) and he was threatened by a group larger than one person could be expected to handle.

Sandman, as stated above, you no longer have to flee from an attack in Florida. Just make sure you can articulate your fears to law enforcement when they arrive.

A BIG part of what happens after the shooting is determined by what happens before. Words, actions, witness perception mean a lot. Leave the bravado/machismo at home. Stay humble, somewhat remoresful (*I didn't want to have to do that-he forced me to) and for God's sake....quiet!!!

More people convict themselves than could possibly be convicted by law enforcement

G

Last edited by Shadow; 06-08-2007 at 05:03 AM.
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Unread 06-07-2007, 12:56 PM   #14
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That's good advice. It's best to just button your lips together when you are all charged up with adrenalin. Even if you know positively without a doubt you are innocent, it would be best to say nothing at all until you have settled down. Perhaps even talked to an attorney first.

Actually that new law here in Florida is a real boon to short, old, out of shape guys like me. Anyone getting in my face is probably going to be bigger, younger, and more in shape than me. Even my running away from him might trigger a heart attack, so I've really got no choice but to shoot the antagonist to protect myself if the hostile attitude appears likely to erupt into physical violence. Besides, I did study martial arts in my younger days and learned that there are several places on your body where a single well placed blow, even accidentally, can SERIOUSLY mess you up. I really don't want to take the chance of being on the receiving end..... And few people really understand how dangerous someone with a blade can be before you can even react.
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Unread 06-07-2007, 01:56 PM   #15
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[quote=Rich Z.. Even my running away from him might trigger a heart attack, QUOTE]

You're right though...Running away may leave a person (especially and out of shape person) in even more dire straights, than if they had stood their ground. They'd be so tired or worse, they wouldn't be able to try to defend themselves.

Shadow, thanks for the reply...This took place a little over one year ago at around 11pm. I agree with what you said and the rest Makes sense! Good advise.

~Ray
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Unread 06-20-2007, 03:58 PM   #16
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For the best answers to these questions for laymen, I strongly recommend the book "Florida Firearms, Law, Use & Ownership", by Jon Gutmacher. He is a Florida attorney who specializes in firearms law and is THE acknowledged expert on same. Great book. Anyone who carries in Florida should read it cover-to-cover imo. Pulling or using a gun can be extremely expensive, even given Florida's laws. Know the law, don't guess.
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Unread 06-20-2007, 04:08 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gannet
For the best answers to these questions for laymen, I strongly recommend the book "Florida Firearms, Law, Use & Ownership", by Jon Gutmacher. He is a Florida attorney who specializes in firearms law and is THE acknowledged expert on same. Great book. Anyone who carries in Florida should read it cover-to-cover imo. Pulling or using a gun can be extremely expensive, even given Florida's laws. Know the law, don't guess.
Thanks Gannet, Very good advise!
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Unread 06-20-2007, 09:05 PM   #18
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Instead, If you really want to know what the courts think, I'd recommed a little time browsing the Florida Supreme Court decision on various cases firearms related.

For the most part very boring reading, but you'll then know for sure what the courts are likely to do.

It's not brain surgery either. Just pretty plain reading *(Ignore the cites).
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Unread 06-20-2007, 09:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gannet
For the best answers to these questions for laymen, I strongly recommend the book "Florida Firearms, Law, Use & Ownership", by Jon Gutmacher. He is a Florida attorney who specializes in firearms law and is THE acknowledged expert on same. Great book. Anyone who carries in Florida should read it cover-to-cover imo. Pulling or using a gun can be extremely expensive, even given Florida's laws. Know the law, don't guess.
Has that book been updated since the Castle Doctrine Law has passed?
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Unread 06-20-2007, 10:03 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich Z
Has that book been updated since the Castle Doctrine Law has passed?
Yes. Get the latest edition. He also updates his website if there are changes in the law, or relevant court decisions.
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