-
Got the Contributing Memberships stuff finally worked out and made up a thread as a sort of "How-To" to help people figure out how to participate. So if you need help figuring it out, here's the thread you need to take a look at -> http://www.corvetteflorida.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3581 Thank you, everyone! Rich Z.
9mm/.45a choices for IWB carry
- Thread starter chris308
- Start date
I don't have the Kahr handy, but the Glock 33 measures an inch wide at the slide, and an inch an 1/8th wide at the base of the grip.
A .45 will probably be wider simply because the cartridge itself is wider.
Since the .357Sig is a necked down .40 casing (10mm), I would think you could find a 9mm slimmer than either of the above.
I know a lot of people don't recommend carrying anything in a smaller caliber than 9mm, but in my opinion ANY gun is better than having NO gun. Anyone who knows what even a .22 can do to your body is going to want to avoid being shot by one.
I chose the Glock 33 because it was the smallest gun I could find that carried the most power in my hand. The .357Sig puts the ballistics of the .357 Magnum in an autoloading cartridge, and gives a rather compact handgun with a LOT of punch.
Of course, maybe something newer has come out that is smaller and carries more punch.
C6Flatfoot
New member
I like an airweight S&W 38spl. for an easy pocket carry. 
I sometimes carry a North American Arms 22lr revolver. :yesnod:
Rich Z is on the money, something is always better than nothing. :thumbsup:
I sometimes carry a North American Arms 22lr revolver. :yesnod:
Rich Z is on the money, something is always better than nothing. :thumbsup:
blacksharkL82
New member
carry gun?
I've carried my S&W M37, since they came out in the early 50s.
A 38 spl, stills stops them, the same as it did in the 50s.
You can have what you feel is better but can you and will you, use it?
Can you hit the mark? Often? Quick? With surity?
And yes, I have more than one gun and carry at least two, all the time.
Number two, is quicker than a reload!
I've carried my S&W M37, since they came out in the early 50s.
A 38 spl, stills stops them, the same as it did in the 50s.
You can have what you feel is better but can you and will you, use it?
Can you hit the mark? Often? Quick? With surity?
And yes, I have more than one gun and carry at least two, all the time.
Number two, is quicker than a reload!
I guess I was never much inclined to be worried about carrying an extra magazine filled with more ammo or a speedloader if I was carrying a revolver.
Quite frankly, if you wind up in a situation where you NEED to reload, you are probably in some very serious crap anyway, and not likely to be getting out of without being carried out on a stretcher. I think there is a difference between preparing for self defense, and preparing to go to war. If you think you might need more than 6 shots, then you are preparing for war. So the best bet would be to just stay away from that war zone you were thinking about going to.
Of course, this does not apply to LEOs, who HAVE to go into war zones as part of their job.
Quite frankly, if you wind up in a situation where you NEED to reload, you are probably in some very serious crap anyway, and not likely to be getting out of without being carried out on a stretcher. I think there is a difference between preparing for self defense, and preparing to go to war. If you think you might need more than 6 shots, then you are preparing for war. So the best bet would be to just stay away from that war zone you were thinking about going to.
Of course, this does not apply to LEOs, who HAVE to go into war zones as part of their job.
blacksharkL82
New member
War?
Not hardley. Street smart,, okay.
I guess, you never lived, worked or visited places where gangs roamed.
My 37, carries 5. My second 37, carries 5 more.
One for RH.
One for LH, if my RH is out of commision.
You've never been in a confrontation, I guess.
I don't mean pushie shovie crap. I refer to knife at your neck or that 6'6" guy with his hand on your neck, holding you a foot off the ground, pounding you with a bat.
Me niether, because I don't fear them. BUT, I'm ready to stop the action at any cost.
Ever been car jacked? Think you would stand a chance?
Your seat belt, holds you holsterd gun, in place, if you're RHed. You need a LH holster, more room and not held tight to your waist, by the seat belt.
Ya'll gots ta think about where you are and what you're doing, all the time.
My buddy, was using my pool the other day and went to the bathroom, (using the pool house). He found a spare gun there and asked why.
I didn't know he was going into that area or I would have cleared the area first.
Had to explain that you'll never know where or when the SHTF, via unwanted persons.
When I showed him the video, of him looking through my things, he gave my a bunch of I'm sorries.
I guess, he'll not be back for a while. And that's okay.
Keep you doors locked!
Not hardley. Street smart,, okay.
I guess, you never lived, worked or visited places where gangs roamed.
My 37, carries 5. My second 37, carries 5 more.
One for RH.
One for LH, if my RH is out of commision.
You've never been in a confrontation, I guess.
I don't mean pushie shovie crap. I refer to knife at your neck or that 6'6" guy with his hand on your neck, holding you a foot off the ground, pounding you with a bat.
Me niether, because I don't fear them. BUT, I'm ready to stop the action at any cost.
Ever been car jacked? Think you would stand a chance?
Your seat belt, holds you holsterd gun, in place, if you're RHed. You need a LH holster, more room and not held tight to your waist, by the seat belt.
Ya'll gots ta think about where you are and what you're doing, all the time.
My buddy, was using my pool the other day and went to the bathroom, (using the pool house). He found a spare gun there and asked why.
I didn't know he was going into that area or I would have cleared the area first.
Had to explain that you'll never know where or when the SHTF, via unwanted persons.
When I showed him the video, of him looking through my things, he gave my a bunch of I'm sorries.
I guess, he'll not be back for a while. And that's okay.
Keep you doors locked!
Heck, I always have a gun on me. I carry around the house and when working in the yard.
But no, not since moving out of Maryland have I had to be in areas I didn't really care to be in. At least nothing that I didn't think that 5 or 6 shots wouldn't resolve one way or another if things went cockeyed. Quite honestly, there are some places I wouldn't feel comfortable in unless I had my StreetSweeper in my hand, fully loaded and the drum wound up ready to go. But I have no need or desire to go to such places, so I don't. It's ALWAYS best to avoid danger if it is an option.
I don't hang out in the bad parts of town, don't go to bars, and if trouble starts up that I am not involved in, I make a point of STAYING uninvolved.
So with that all in mind, I believe a single handgun with 6 shots or so will be enough for my needs if I should ever NEED to draw my gun.
Heck, I remember a discussion I had with a friend of mine a while back when I was talking about the night sights on my Sig P229 on the nightstand in my bedroom. He was adamant that night sights were dangerous because someone in back of you could see those night sights when your gun was raised and know where you were in the dark. I told him, "Heck, if someone is in back of me in my bedroom while I have my gun drawn looking for an intruder in front of me, I'm already in a world of crap anyway." Seriously, sometimes the scenarios some people envision are just not likely enough to be worried about. Impossible? No. Just improbable.
But no, not since moving out of Maryland have I had to be in areas I didn't really care to be in. At least nothing that I didn't think that 5 or 6 shots wouldn't resolve one way or another if things went cockeyed. Quite honestly, there are some places I wouldn't feel comfortable in unless I had my StreetSweeper in my hand, fully loaded and the drum wound up ready to go. But I have no need or desire to go to such places, so I don't. It's ALWAYS best to avoid danger if it is an option.
I don't hang out in the bad parts of town, don't go to bars, and if trouble starts up that I am not involved in, I make a point of STAYING uninvolved.
So with that all in mind, I believe a single handgun with 6 shots or so will be enough for my needs if I should ever NEED to draw my gun.
Heck, I remember a discussion I had with a friend of mine a while back when I was talking about the night sights on my Sig P229 on the nightstand in my bedroom. He was adamant that night sights were dangerous because someone in back of you could see those night sights when your gun was raised and know where you were in the dark. I told him, "Heck, if someone is in back of me in my bedroom while I have my gun drawn looking for an intruder in front of me, I'm already in a world of crap anyway." Seriously, sometimes the scenarios some people envision are just not likely enough to be worried about. Impossible? No. Just improbable.
blacksharkL82
New member
carry 2
Let me see that happen. LOL
Coming in the window, maybe. The alarms and lights will ID them, if they need to be ID'd.
Most likely from an arrest record in the morgue.
No invader, will surive an intrusion!
Let me see that happen. LOL
Coming in the window, maybe. The alarms and lights will ID them, if they need to be ID'd.
Most likely from an arrest record in the morgue.
No invader, will surive an intrusion!
Mannings
New member
My wife's first pistol was a Glock 17 and she loved it full size and all. On a whim she desided she wanted something smaller for purse carry and bought a Kahr CW9 that she had never fired. She figured smaller, narrower lighter should be better for her. And I figured "boy I've got myself a G17 :crazy03:"
The first day at the range results were not good. She hates the shorter grip length, it was to light doesn't really feel like what I'm used to, she gripped it high and the slide cut her hand in the web between her thumb and first finger and the final straw was it's a PIA to break down to clean.
"boy I've got myself a Kahr CW9 now
" She went back to her G17 and has never looked back.
I the shoot the Kahr several times a month and it's a great little gun but not for everybody.
The first day at the range results were not good. She hates the shorter grip length, it was to light doesn't really feel like what I'm used to, she gripped it high and the slide cut her hand in the web between her thumb and first finger and the final straw was it's a PIA to break down to clean.
"boy I've got myself a Kahr CW9 now
" She went back to her G17 and has never looked back.I the shoot the Kahr several times a month and it's a great little gun but not for everybody.
Yeah, the Glock 33 I carry has a short grip, even for my small hands. I had to add a magazine follower with a "pinky ledge" to make it feel better in my hand.
I was actually quite surprised at how well the model 33 shoots. Pretty darn accurate for that short barrel.
I was actually quite surprised at how well the model 33 shoots. Pretty darn accurate for that short barrel.
grumpyvette
retired mech engineer
think it thru, everything's going to be a compromise in one way or another
almost any gun can produce wounds that will eventually prove fatal, but it takes good shot placement and a minimal power level to produce a wound that's highly likely to stop a determined adversary quickly ,under most conditions,if hes intent on doing you a great deal of harm at spitting distances , ESPECIALLY if hes on drugs or basically insane. IT does you little good to shoot randomly placed holes in an attacker that will prove fatal in 30-45 minutes, if he cuts your throat or shoots holes in you during the first 5 seconds of the violent confrontation
IF your forced to fight, for your life,if your opponents not down and out, DON,T STOP SHOOTING!
FAILURE to destroy the CNS (BRAIN OR UPPER SPINE) will usually NOT RESULT in instant stops
even several center mass hits that will eventually prove fatal will not insure the attacker can,t continue to fight for a few minutes, even non-survivable wounds don,t necessarily, stop an antagonist instantly
selecting a defensive hand gun is an individual process where your forced compromise to achieve a reasonable balance between your personal ability to control, hard hitting power and its higher recoil levels and your guns basic operator friendliness, your choices in caliber and firearm increase or decrease your speed and accuracy, and its that speed and accuracy with its mandatory lower recoil and power levels,that will tend to dictate you choices, only hits count, but only carefully placed hits on an opponent with enough destructive power, will quickly end a threat, if they can be depended on to destroy the central nervous system, organs or major skeletal structure of your opponent
for most people who are willing to train, frequently the 38spc and 9mm in a medium size revolver or pistol are easily handled
for most people the upper recoil levels of the 10mm and 41mag and the lower load levels in the 45acp, are controllable but for some people ,borderline excessive
the 357 mag, 40s&w and 44 spcl and moderate 45acp loads, fall in the mid range, the the 10mm and 41mag and the lower load levels in the 45acp,are certainly usable, but require frequent training to excel in their use
OK IVE always felt that the main concern is having a tool that will get the job done effectively, rather than just having the easiest gun to carry concealed, while its true , that to be useful the choice must be carried with you almost all the time so you'll have access to the handgun should it be necessary, having a handgun for self defense is a bit like carrying a fire extinguisher in the car, you need to have fast easy access, but you sure hope you'll never need to use it, and some thought about where you go, what you do, and how you go about it can lower the odds of it ever being necessary for you to use either one!
IF your forced to fight, for your life,if your opponents not down and out, DON,T STOP SHOOTING!
THINK, BEFORE YOU ACT,AVOIDING A CONFRONTATION IS THE BEST ROUTE ABOUT 99% OF THE TIME, BUT IN THE REAL WORLD YOUR RESPONSE BETTER BE WELL THOUGHT THRU BEFORE HAND AS THERE WILL BE VERY LITTLE TIME TO DO SO UNDER THE ACTUAL THREAT CONDITIONS, AND YOU'VE GOT TO RESPOND CORRECTLY AND HAVE THE NECESSARY SKILLS AND EQUIPMENT,....ONCE YOU NEED TO USE A HANDGUN, YOU'VE SCREWED UP SOME HOW, AND ITS GOING TO COST YOU DEARLY IN MOST CASES, in LEGAL HASSLES & COSTS OR JAIL TIME, OR POSSIBLY COST YOU YOUR LIFE!
BUT, THAT BEING SAID, if your forced into a fight ,combat experience over the last 100 years has shown that anything significantly lower or less powerful than about a 9mm parabelum , is mostly a physiological crutch, that may make you feel more secure ,more than ITS REALLY AN effective weapon, that's effective at stopping a determined adversary, and once you get close too or get above the power level of the 44 magnum theres a serious trade off in speed of accurate repeat fire, and weapon size that's not generally to your advantage.
you better be 110% sure your fully justified before reaching for a gun, and not let emotions effect sound judgment! just because you've got a handgun in no way means that's necessarily the best tool or choice, running away, a good swift kick to the opponents family jewels , a quick punch in the opponents nose,or some apologies might be a far better route even if your 100% justified in fighting
almost any gun can produce wounds that will eventually prove fatal, but it takes good shot placement and a minimal power level to produce a wound that's highly likely to stop a determined adversary quickly ,under most conditions,if hes intent on doing you a great deal of harm at spitting distances , ESPECIALLY if hes on drugs or basically insane. IT does you little good to shoot randomly placed holes in an attacker that will prove fatal in 30-45 minutes, if he cuts your throat or shoots holes in you during the first 5 seconds of the violent confrontation
IF your forced to fight, for your life,if your opponents not down and out, DON,T STOP SHOOTING!
FAILURE to destroy the CNS (BRAIN OR UPPER SPINE) will usually NOT RESULT in instant stops
even several center mass hits that will eventually prove fatal will not insure the attacker can,t continue to fight for a few minutes, even non-survivable wounds don,t necessarily, stop an antagonist instantly
selecting a defensive hand gun is an individual process where your forced compromise to achieve a reasonable balance between your personal ability to control, hard hitting power and its higher recoil levels and your guns basic operator friendliness, your choices in caliber and firearm increase or decrease your speed and accuracy, and its that speed and accuracy with its mandatory lower recoil and power levels,that will tend to dictate you choices, only hits count, but only carefully placed hits on an opponent with enough destructive power, will quickly end a threat, if they can be depended on to destroy the central nervous system, organs or major skeletal structure of your opponent
for most people who are willing to train, frequently the 38spc and 9mm in a medium size revolver or pistol are easily handled
for most people the upper recoil levels of the 10mm and 41mag and the lower load levels in the 45acp, are controllable but for some people ,borderline excessive
the 357 mag, 40s&w and 44 spcl and moderate 45acp loads, fall in the mid range, the the 10mm and 41mag and the lower load levels in the 45acp,are certainly usable, but require frequent training to excel in their use
OK IVE always felt that the main concern is having a tool that will get the job done effectively, rather than just having the easiest gun to carry concealed, while its true , that to be useful the choice must be carried with you almost all the time so you'll have access to the handgun should it be necessary, having a handgun for self defense is a bit like carrying a fire extinguisher in the car, you need to have fast easy access, but you sure hope you'll never need to use it, and some thought about where you go, what you do, and how you go about it can lower the odds of it ever being necessary for you to use either one!
IF your forced to fight, for your life,if your opponents not down and out, DON,T STOP SHOOTING!
THINK, BEFORE YOU ACT,AVOIDING A CONFRONTATION IS THE BEST ROUTE ABOUT 99% OF THE TIME, BUT IN THE REAL WORLD YOUR RESPONSE BETTER BE WELL THOUGHT THRU BEFORE HAND AS THERE WILL BE VERY LITTLE TIME TO DO SO UNDER THE ACTUAL THREAT CONDITIONS, AND YOU'VE GOT TO RESPOND CORRECTLY AND HAVE THE NECESSARY SKILLS AND EQUIPMENT,....ONCE YOU NEED TO USE A HANDGUN, YOU'VE SCREWED UP SOME HOW, AND ITS GOING TO COST YOU DEARLY IN MOST CASES, in LEGAL HASSLES & COSTS OR JAIL TIME, OR POSSIBLY COST YOU YOUR LIFE!
BUT, THAT BEING SAID, if your forced into a fight ,combat experience over the last 100 years has shown that anything significantly lower or less powerful than about a 9mm parabelum , is mostly a physiological crutch, that may make you feel more secure ,more than ITS REALLY AN effective weapon, that's effective at stopping a determined adversary, and once you get close too or get above the power level of the 44 magnum theres a serious trade off in speed of accurate repeat fire, and weapon size that's not generally to your advantage.
you better be 110% sure your fully justified before reaching for a gun, and not let emotions effect sound judgment! just because you've got a handgun in no way means that's necessarily the best tool or choice, running away, a good swift kick to the opponents family jewels , a quick punch in the opponents nose,or some apologies might be a far better route even if your 100% justified in fighting
grumpyvette
retired mech engineer
http://www.baynews9.com/article/new...de-a-St.-Petersburg-restaurant?cmpid=facebook
heres a good example of why you need to carry a concealed weapon, because you never know where or when youll be attacked, and why a 380 is not the ideal caliber, because look at the results after hitting an attacker 4 times, at close range, hes still up functioning and expected to survive, which would be far less likely with a 357 mag, 10mm or 45 acp
yeah! buddy a good 357 mag, 45acp, or 10mm with double tap brand ammo would be far less likely to result in a guy shot 4 times standing there yelling at you to stop shooting him
I know my 10 mm glock only takes one solid hit to drop a deer!
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/index.php?cPath=21&osCsid=lh2jhaopns0ktd9rtdlbrm4582
ST. PETERSBURG --
Police plan to charge a 17-year-old boy who was shot four times while attempting to rob two people in an Applebee's parking lot Sunday night.
Bay News 9 is not naming the juvenile suspect, who will be charged with two counts of attempted armed robbery.
Police said the suspect approached Raven Smith and Lesley Tanner's car around 10:30 p.m. Sunday and pointed a gun at Tanner.
Smith, 34, who has concealed weapons permit, saw this and fired his .380 caliber gun at the suspect several times.
After the suspect was struck four times, he pulled off his mask and yelled at Smith to stop shooting. The suspect told Smith the gun was fake, though police said it was a fully loaded .25 caliber automatic.
The suspect was taken to an area hospital in serious condition but is expected to survive, police said.
Police said Smith acted in self defense.
The initial report
The St. Petersburg Police Department is investigating a shooting that happened Sunday night in a restaurant parking lot.
According to officials, a person was shot during a robbery attempt outside an Applebee's restaurant.
The shooting took place in the parking lot outside the Applebee's at 4700 4th St. North just before 11 p.m.
Police officials said as a couple parked their car, a masked man attempted to rob them. But the male would-be victim pulled his own gun and fired multiple times at the robber.
The robber, who hasn't been identified, was shot and rushed to a local hospital with non-life threatening injuries.
Customers inside Applebee's called Bay News 9 shortly after the shooting saying police had locked down the restaurant until the scene outside was under control.
related info
http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=91&t=2062
heres a good example of why you need to carry a concealed weapon, because you never know where or when youll be attacked, and why a 380 is not the ideal caliber, because look at the results after hitting an attacker 4 times, at close range, hes still up functioning and expected to survive, which would be far less likely with a 357 mag, 10mm or 45 acp
yeah! buddy a good 357 mag, 45acp, or 10mm with double tap brand ammo would be far less likely to result in a guy shot 4 times standing there yelling at you to stop shooting him
I know my 10 mm glock only takes one solid hit to drop a deer!
http://www.doubletapammo.com/php/catalog/index.php?cPath=21&osCsid=lh2jhaopns0ktd9rtdlbrm4582
ST. PETERSBURG --
Police plan to charge a 17-year-old boy who was shot four times while attempting to rob two people in an Applebee's parking lot Sunday night.
Bay News 9 is not naming the juvenile suspect, who will be charged with two counts of attempted armed robbery.
Police said the suspect approached Raven Smith and Lesley Tanner's car around 10:30 p.m. Sunday and pointed a gun at Tanner.
Smith, 34, who has concealed weapons permit, saw this and fired his .380 caliber gun at the suspect several times.
After the suspect was struck four times, he pulled off his mask and yelled at Smith to stop shooting. The suspect told Smith the gun was fake, though police said it was a fully loaded .25 caliber automatic.
The suspect was taken to an area hospital in serious condition but is expected to survive, police said.
Police said Smith acted in self defense.
The initial report
The St. Petersburg Police Department is investigating a shooting that happened Sunday night in a restaurant parking lot.
According to officials, a person was shot during a robbery attempt outside an Applebee's restaurant.
The shooting took place in the parking lot outside the Applebee's at 4700 4th St. North just before 11 p.m.
Police officials said as a couple parked their car, a masked man attempted to rob them. But the male would-be victim pulled his own gun and fired multiple times at the robber.
The robber, who hasn't been identified, was shot and rushed to a local hospital with non-life threatening injuries.
Customers inside Applebee's called Bay News 9 shortly after the shooting saying police had locked down the restaurant until the scene outside was under control.
related info
http://forum.grumpysperformance.com/viewtopic.php?f=91&t=2062
grumpyvette
retired mech engineer
its careful selection of the ammo used that has the greatest effect on penetration and energy delivery
http://stevespages.com/page8f380acp.html
http://stevespages.com/page8f10mm.html
http://stevespages.com/page8f45acp.html
http://stevespages.com/page8f357magnum.html
http://stevespages.com/page8f380acp.html
http://stevespages.com/page8f10mm.html
http://stevespages.com/page8f45acp.html
http://stevespages.com/page8f357magnum.html
Yeah, and it's a pretty tough calculation to try to come up with a best solution.
The balance striven for is normally between adequate penetration versus over penetration in the pursuit of stopping your adversary. And there are a several variables to have to try to take into account, many of which you will likely have any control over. Heck, how can you predict if your fired projectile will hit a bone or just travel straight on through soft tissue? So you have to select the proper caliber, weight, bullet construction, and delivery package all while making just best guesses at how you will possibly need to use it. So just resolve yourself to pretty much having to pick a compromise and hope for the best. Because if you KNEW you were going to be going into a firefight for your life later that day, you would just choose to be somewhere else at that time.
BTW, I agree with your recommendation to KEEP on firing if you are fighting for your life with an adversary, to try to STOP him. However, the prosecutor is going to make a real rough time for you when asked to explain why your adversary was shot 17 times. You will be presented in the worse possible light. So ONLY shoot until your adversary is DOWN, then stay out of the line of fire while help is summoned. You DO NOT want to walk over to him to check to make certain that he is down for the count only to find out disappointingly (and possibly fatally) that he DEFINITELY was not. Someone wounded can STILL pull a trigger.
Also, when the authorities show up, your goal was NEVER to kill the adversary, but merely to positively STOP him. Be careful of what you say and how you say it. Babbling away at this time to relieve the tension could be a real big mistake. As far as the police are concerned, YOU are a suspect in a homicide until reasonably proven otherwise.
The balance striven for is normally between adequate penetration versus over penetration in the pursuit of stopping your adversary. And there are a several variables to have to try to take into account, many of which you will likely have any control over. Heck, how can you predict if your fired projectile will hit a bone or just travel straight on through soft tissue? So you have to select the proper caliber, weight, bullet construction, and delivery package all while making just best guesses at how you will possibly need to use it. So just resolve yourself to pretty much having to pick a compromise and hope for the best. Because if you KNEW you were going to be going into a firefight for your life later that day, you would just choose to be somewhere else at that time.
BTW, I agree with your recommendation to KEEP on firing if you are fighting for your life with an adversary, to try to STOP him. However, the prosecutor is going to make a real rough time for you when asked to explain why your adversary was shot 17 times. You will be presented in the worse possible light. So ONLY shoot until your adversary is DOWN, then stay out of the line of fire while help is summoned. You DO NOT want to walk over to him to check to make certain that he is down for the count only to find out disappointingly (and possibly fatally) that he DEFINITELY was not. Someone wounded can STILL pull a trigger.
Also, when the authorities show up, your goal was NEVER to kill the adversary, but merely to positively STOP him. Be careful of what you say and how you say it. Babbling away at this time to relieve the tension could be a real big mistake. As far as the police are concerned, YOU are a suspect in a homicide until reasonably proven otherwise.